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	<title>Comments on: In the next election, I will be voting Environment</title>
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	<description>be the change you want to see in the world</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: evan</title>
		<link>http://www.ecstaticist.com/earth/in-the-next-election-i-will-be-voting-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-210004</link>
		<dc:creator>evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecstaticist.com/?p=489#comment-210004</guid>
		<description>Great thoughts, Karen. Thanks for putting them down here, on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts, Karen. Thanks for putting them down here, on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ecstaticist.com/earth/in-the-next-election-i-will-be-voting-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-209957</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecstaticist.com/?p=489#comment-209957</guid>
		<description>I really don't think a Conservative majority is a possibility, certainly not a probability.    Enough people hate Harper that it seems impossible that he would rise to the top again -- even some of his staunchest supporters seem ready to turn their backs on him.   He is alienating his own party with his bizarre, backwards politics.    I would be surprised to see even a Conservative minority.   I think it's going to be a Liberal sweep.   Canadian voters want to stay right of centre and there are only two choices and they don't like the one they have now.    

I have a theory that I can't articulate properly until I've had much more coffee than I've had right now.   Let me try, and excuse the poor presentation of the concept.    Say you took every Canadian and surveyed them about their political beliefs.   Not asking them which party they'd align with by name, not asking them if they THINK they are NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but taking each individual platform and saying, What do you believe would be the best plan for healthcare?   A, B, or C.   Education?   A, B, or C.    I'm willing to bet that most Canadians' politics would line up to equal an NDP vote.   But for whatever reason, a lot of people don't equate their own politics with NDP politics.    They write the NDP off as leftist hippies or "the common people" or what have you.    The NDP have an image problem.   If they were smart, they'd hire the best PR firm in North America to re-brand them, because it isn't the politics that turn people off, it's something about the overall image.    That said, when they get to the polls, even the people who KNOW the NDP are the best choice vis a vis their own political taste, tend to vote for the guy in the suit, the guy who LOOKS like he knows what he's doing, the guy with spit-and-polish.   And they put their X beside one of the two nearly interchangeable right-wing parties. 


On a similar line, Canada suffers from a similar political reality as the US, where people identify as strongly with their parent's political beliefs as they do with their church.   There's such strong brand loyalty and brand sensibility built into it, that I think many just simply don't have the courage of their OWN convictions.    

Another thought:   Maybe because the NDP are viewed as "the people's party", people feel that by voting for the NDP they are voting, in a way, for themselves.   They probably also believe that they couldn't actually DO the job themselves, therefore aren't going to throw a vote to someone who they believe maybe can't do the job either -- based on their belief they themselves couldn't do it.   So they vote for the guy in the suit who talks fast in a voice that says, "Don't mess with me, I know what I'm doing" because in spite of the fact that they think what he's going to do sounds like bollocks (to borrow from the Brits) they assume he must know what he's doing because he's somehow smarter or better than them.   He must be, right?  Because what he's offering up makes no sense so they just must be too dumb to understand, therefore vote for him because he's clearly very smart.    It's some kind of national self-deprecation that keeps people from saying, "You know what?   Your plan makes no sense and I don't HAVE to vote for you, I can vote for what I actually believe in."   It's that self-deprecation that makes people think soemthing more along the lines of, "What I believe in is too simple so therefore must be wrong."

There are layers and layers, too.    People want to be successful, they want to get ahead, they want to make money.    The parties that represent that appear, on the surface, to be the right wing choices.    How can you vote NDP whose platform centres on social programs when you yourself want to identify with they guy who drives the Mercedes and wears the nice suits?    It's hard to get one's head around the idea that you can be a business success and still fundamentally believe that the NDP party is the best choice for Canada.    Because of the image issue.    Again.

I'm so tired of the right wing regime, the flip flopping back and forth between the Liberals and the Conservatives, the complete lack of positive change, the seeming paralysis of the Canadian voters when it comes to even dragging themselves to the polls, much less making a different choice than they're used to making.   

I don't know if I dream of, specifically, PM Jack Layton.    I just dream of the power of a population to make change when change is the best choice in front of them.   

I actually dream of a ballot where people are forced to think about what they believe in:   they'd be asked to choose right then and there what their stand is on the environment, on education, on healthcare, and not told who they are voting for but rather voting blind for what they actually think.   Then, and only then, would the process be a real reflection of the people's choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t think a Conservative majority is a possibility, certainly not a probability.    Enough people hate Harper that it seems impossible that he would rise to the top again &#8212; even some of his staunchest supporters seem ready to turn their backs on him.   He is alienating his own party with his bizarre, backwards politics.    I would be surprised to see even a Conservative minority.   I think it&#8217;s going to be a Liberal sweep.   Canadian voters want to stay right of centre and there are only two choices and they don&#8217;t like the one they have now.    </p>
<p>I have a theory that I can&#8217;t articulate properly until I&#8217;ve had much more coffee than I&#8217;ve had right now.   Let me try, and excuse the poor presentation of the concept.    Say you took every Canadian and surveyed them about their political beliefs.   Not asking them which party they&#8217;d align with by name, not asking them if they THINK they are NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but taking each individual platform and saying, What do you believe would be the best plan for healthcare?   A, B, or C.   Education?   A, B, or C.    I&#8217;m willing to bet that most Canadians&#8217; politics would line up to equal an NDP vote.   But for whatever reason, a lot of people don&#8217;t equate their own politics with NDP politics.    They write the NDP off as leftist hippies or &#8220;the common people&#8221; or what have you.    The NDP have an image problem.   If they were smart, they&#8217;d hire the best PR firm in North America to re-brand them, because it isn&#8217;t the politics that turn people off, it&#8217;s something about the overall image.    That said, when they get to the polls, even the people who KNOW the NDP are the best choice vis a vis their own political taste, tend to vote for the guy in the suit, the guy who LOOKS like he knows what he&#8217;s doing, the guy with spit-and-polish.   And they put their X beside one of the two nearly interchangeable right-wing parties. </p>
<p>On a similar line, Canada suffers from a similar political reality as the US, where people identify as strongly with their parent&#8217;s political beliefs as they do with their church.   There&#8217;s such strong brand loyalty and brand sensibility built into it, that I think many just simply don&#8217;t have the courage of their OWN convictions.    </p>
<p>Another thought:   Maybe because the NDP are viewed as &#8220;the people&#8217;s party&#8221;, people feel that by voting for the NDP they are voting, in a way, for themselves.   They probably also believe that they couldn&#8217;t actually DO the job themselves, therefore aren&#8217;t going to throw a vote to someone who they believe maybe can&#8217;t do the job either &#8212; based on their belief they themselves couldn&#8217;t do it.   So they vote for the guy in the suit who talks fast in a voice that says, &#8220;Don&#8217;t mess with me, I know what I&#8217;m doing&#8221; because in spite of the fact that they think what he&#8217;s going to do sounds like bollocks (to borrow from the Brits) they assume he must know what he&#8217;s doing because he&#8217;s somehow smarter or better than them.   He must be, right?  Because what he&#8217;s offering up makes no sense so they just must be too dumb to understand, therefore vote for him because he&#8217;s clearly very smart.    It&#8217;s some kind of national self-deprecation that keeps people from saying, &#8220;You know what?   Your plan makes no sense and I don&#8217;t HAVE to vote for you, I can vote for what I actually believe in.&#8221;   It&#8217;s that self-deprecation that makes people think soemthing more along the lines of, &#8220;What I believe in is too simple so therefore must be wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are layers and layers, too.    People want to be successful, they want to get ahead, they want to make money.    The parties that represent that appear, on the surface, to be the right wing choices.    How can you vote NDP whose platform centres on social programs when you yourself want to identify with they guy who drives the Mercedes and wears the nice suits?    It&#8217;s hard to get one&#8217;s head around the idea that you can be a business success and still fundamentally believe that the NDP party is the best choice for Canada.    Because of the image issue.    Again.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so tired of the right wing regime, the flip flopping back and forth between the Liberals and the Conservatives, the complete lack of positive change, the seeming paralysis of the Canadian voters when it comes to even dragging themselves to the polls, much less making a different choice than they&#8217;re used to making.   </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if I dream of, specifically, PM Jack Layton.    I just dream of the power of a population to make change when change is the best choice in front of them.   </p>
<p>I actually dream of a ballot where people are forced to think about what they believe in:   they&#8217;d be asked to choose right then and there what their stand is on the environment, on education, on healthcare, and not told who they are voting for but rather voting blind for what they actually think.   Then, and only then, would the process be a real reflection of the people&#8217;s choices.</p>
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		<title>By: evan</title>
		<link>http://www.ecstaticist.com/earth/in-the-next-election-i-will-be-voting-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-209583</link>
		<dc:creator>evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecstaticist.com/?p=489#comment-209583</guid>
		<description>Politics IS about what's possible. Practicing a politics that adheres to principle and ignores what is really going to happen is just a refusal to recognize that what get implemented is ALWAYS some kind of comprimise. As skewed as it may be by unbalanced distribution of power, influence and wealth, that's a fact.

It is &lt;b&gt;possible&lt;/b&gt; to get a government in power that will take steps on the issue of climate change. I believe StÃ©phane Dion when he says he is staking his career on this issue. You may not. That's your prerogative, of course. However, your implied theory that more people support the NDP than actually vote for them was blown up in the last election. If ever there was an opportunity...that was it. Popular leader, a Liberal melt-down. Didn't happen despite the perfect conditions.

In any case, please don't miss what I'm saying. I believe a Liberal minority government is the best possible outcome in the next election. An NDP minority or majority will not happen. Another Conservative minority or, heaven forbid, majority is a distinct possibility. The suggestion is to vote for the pro-environment party in your riding and hope for the best outcome, which is a government led by the Liberals and held accountable by the NDP and perhaps even a green or two.

Don't waste your vote on a candidate that doesn't have a chance to beat the conservative. If you don't have a candidate who can beat a conservative swap your vote with someone else in another riding who does. We have to get rid of them. 

We have to get the progressive centre/left working together or our country will conitnue to slide to the right.

Don't re-elect the conservatives. The issue of global warming is too important and they are doing nothing. Worse, Canada is a laughing stock and will soon suffer the consequences if the "don't buy dirty" campaigns in other countries come into force. Canada is a rogue right now. A dirty country. Dreaming of PM Jack Layton won't fix that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politics IS about what&#8217;s possible. Practicing a politics that adheres to principle and ignores what is really going to happen is just a refusal to recognize that what get implemented is ALWAYS some kind of comprimise. As skewed as it may be by unbalanced distribution of power, influence and wealth, that&#8217;s a fact.</p>
<p>It is <b>possible</b> to get a government in power that will take steps on the issue of climate change. I believe StÃ©phane Dion when he says he is staking his career on this issue. You may not. That&#8217;s your prerogative, of course. However, your implied theory that more people support the NDP than actually vote for them was blown up in the last election. If ever there was an opportunity&#8230;that was it. Popular leader, a Liberal melt-down. Didn&#8217;t happen despite the perfect conditions.</p>
<p>In any case, please don&#8217;t miss what I&#8217;m saying. I believe a Liberal minority government is the best possible outcome in the next election. An NDP minority or majority will not happen. Another Conservative minority or, heaven forbid, majority is a distinct possibility. The suggestion is to vote for the pro-environment party in your riding and hope for the best outcome, which is a government led by the Liberals and held accountable by the NDP and perhaps even a green or two.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t waste your vote on a candidate that doesn&#8217;t have a chance to beat the conservative. If you don&#8217;t have a candidate who can beat a conservative swap your vote with someone else in another riding who does. We have to get rid of them. </p>
<p>We have to get the progressive centre/left working together or our country will conitnue to slide to the right.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t re-elect the conservatives. The issue of global warming is too important and they are doing nothing. Worse, Canada is a laughing stock and will soon suffer the consequences if the &#8220;don&#8217;t buy dirty&#8221; campaigns in other countries come into force. Canada is a rogue right now. A dirty country. Dreaming of PM Jack Layton won&#8217;t fix that.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.ecstaticist.com/earth/in-the-next-election-i-will-be-voting-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-209520</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecstaticist.com/?p=489#comment-209520</guid>
		<description>I'll say it:  How could you, Evan?  The Liberal "plan" is probably not worth the non-recycled paper it's written on.   A plan is only meaningful if there is a likelihood of following it through, and I wouldn't bet the farm (or even my vote) on that happening.   Politics isn't about what's possible, it's mostly about convenient campaign fictions, marketing, and power.    My vote will go to the NDP and one of these days enough NDP voters will actually vote for the party of their choice and they will have a chance to show what they can do in office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll say it:  How could you, Evan?  The Liberal &#8220;plan&#8221; is probably not worth the non-recycled paper it&#8217;s written on.   A plan is only meaningful if there is a likelihood of following it through, and I wouldn&#8217;t bet the farm (or even my vote) on that happening.   Politics isn&#8217;t about what&#8217;s possible, it&#8217;s mostly about convenient campaign fictions, marketing, and power.    My vote will go to the NDP and one of these days enough NDP voters will actually vote for the party of their choice and they will have a chance to show what they can do in office.</p>
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